Friday morning - Massive changes

 So two days ago we picked up our 2015 Lance 2612 Toy Hauler with our 2018 RAM 2500 6.4 Hemi truck and brought her home. 

Thursday my wonder wife sent me a link to a local Buick/GMC dealership that had a really killer deal on a pre-owned RAM 3500 Cummins 6.7 Turbo Diesel Dual Rear Wheel truck. Fortunately our favorite salesman, that we have faithfully purchased vehicles from since about 2006, now worked at this dealership. We have him on speed dial on our cell phones so a quick text message exchange verified that the truck was still available and he would pull it up front for us to look at it. Since my better half was still working she sent me to the dealership on my own to check out the truck.

When I arrived the salesman, let's call him George, was waiting for me. He simply handed me the keys and a dealer plate (I'm telling you, he knows and trusts us quite well!) and told me to take it home and show it to my lovely wife. 

Now ... this thing is a beast and practically brand new. It's a 2019 with 14,200 miles on a Cummins 6.7 Turbo Diesel engine ... that's just barely broken in kind of mileage. Laramie Edition 4x4, leather, a ton of options, 10 speaker Alpine stereo, 8' cargo bed, heavy duty class 5 hitch, five cameras (tailgate, cargo area, front facing, L & R mirrors) and together they create the "Surround View", all of the safety features like lane departure, cross path detection, blind spot monitoring, power everything. The love of my life took it around the block and also agreed that getting this would alleviate a couple of future concerns like ...

1. Lance tongue weight, total weight -vs- the RAM 2500 limits. 

2. The possibility of a bigger trailer or toy hauler in the future.

3. Dragging anything through mountain ranges like Mount Shasta, Grants Pass in the west, the Rockies, or the Appalachians in the east would never be a problem with this truck.

So, on Friday we pulled the trigger and traded in the Omaha Orange RAM 2500 6.4 Hemi for the Delmonico Red Pearlcoat RAM 3500 6.7 Turbo Diesel. As we were transferring the last couple of items from one truck to the other 'George' asked if we wanted remove the AMP BedXtender and put it into the new truck because it looked like it would fit ... we measured real quick and it fits fine. He even topped off the fuel and DEF tanks before we drove off with the new truck.

This Truck

                                                        Will Be Pulling This Toy Hauler

 

Bringing The New (To Us) Lance Home

 So on Wednesday we completed the inspection and walk through, did the final paperwork, and hooked the Lance to our RAM 2500 to bring her home.

Since we only live a couple of miles from the dealership we were home in a few minutes. Backing this bad boy into the driveway was slightly harder than the clipper ... mainly because A) It's about six feet longer and several inches wider. 

Fortunately, we had a rear view camera/monitor on the Lance to assist. Actually, it was our camera/monitor off the Clipper we traded in ... they could not find the monitor that went with the camera that was already mounted on the back of the Lance. So they removed the camera and replaced it with the wireless Furrion camera I had installed on the Clipper and the matching wireless monitor. 

Our Husky Centerline TS Weight Distro System had also been properly transferred onto the Lance frame. 

*Note To Self* I really, Really, REALLY need to demolish that stupid brick and block mailbox that sits in the driveway and put up a new mailbox by the center sidewalk.

We seriously debated taking the Truck and Lance to the local CAT scales to get the numbers for our new setup ... but it was getting late and we decided it would probably be a better idea to load it up with our standard stuff that we removed from the Clipper before we traded it in, then fill the truck fuel tank, and make sure we had at least 75 gallons of water in the fresh tank. Also, the trailer fuel station was under 1/4 tank, it could probably use a fresh top off. Then hit the CAT scales on the weekend.

Those plans totally blew into the wind by Friday morning because ... 

Today is the day we pick up the Lance !

 I stopped by the dealership yesterday to verify that we were still on schedule for the 3pm PDI/Walkthrough of the Lance toy hauler. Everything looks good and nothing has changed.

I saw the Lance getting a hand wax job in the bay (it's looking great !) and took a stroll around it with the tech. He tells me he looked but did not find any solar plugs or pre-wiring in or on the TH anywhere. The off brand weight distro brackets have been removed and my Husky brackets are going on today. He is still looking for the monitor that goes with the rear view camera, but if he can't find it he says he will just pull our Furion camera and 7" monitor off the Clipper and put it on the Lance. 

It's 9:00am and I actually have to go out and clean up the driveway this morning. Pull some weeds, cut down a smallish Palo Verde tree, and cut back two oleander bushes. Then rake the gravel so it is acceptable for the leveling jacks. 

I went to Camping World yesterday too ... but OMG their prices are becoming ridiculous ! It's like they believe that this RV boom in the time of a pandemic gives them the permission to jack up the prices so that the newbie 'suckers' that are just starting out (and everyone else that buys their inflated products) are getting robbed. Comparatively speaking ... Amazon is my friend. For example:

Well damn ... I just tried to make a couple of obvious price comparisons and the first three immediately proved me wrong and that CW prices were actually slightly lower (less than $2) than Amazon ... without factoring in a Good Sam discount.

Good thing I have not ordered anything yet ... which I won't do anyway until I get the TH into the driveway and see if I need any additional leveling gear or better jack pads. Pretty sure I still have some good 2x8 chunks out back that I can use to level if needed. 

UPDATE >> 12:50pm >> Well, that little driveway cleanup project was a bit larger than it looked, it took almost four hours to complete. I ended up filling up two large city trash cans with all of the greenery I chopped down. The stupid Palo Verde tree was one evil SOB !! They have thorns that snag on pants & shirts, will punch through leather gloves, and up through the soles of your shoes if you step on some of the larger ones. They will scratch you deeply and make you bleed profusely if you manage to walk past a branch and not pay attention.    

The Toy Hauler

 So we looked at dozens, or hundreds (I lost count) of trailers, RVs, gas, diesel, 5th wheels, everything. And went back and forth about the pros and cons of each one ... 

The only way we were getting a good diesel pusher Class A would be to massively go into debt for it ... that was a big nope.

Sort of the same for a good gasser ... less money, but also less tow capacity for a TOAD. Maintenance cost for both was very high ... our first Class A cost us $1,800 just for tires !!!

Basically, no combination really worked in our favor until we saw Lance Toy Hauler. 

Now this thing was actually really pretty .... 26 feet long (33' tip to tail) dual pane frameless blackout windows, rear ramp for the trikes, two sofas that opened into beds, and extra queen bed in back over the bunk. Bedroom and bathroom with large shower and toilet space galore. But the price was kind of high considering the size.

Well, it is a 50 year anniversary special as well as an insulated four-seasons edition.

We bookmarked that one for later.

Strangely enough, every single trailer or 5th wheel, every other toy hauler we looked at ... got compare to the one we first saw. 

But it was the brand that tossed us for a loop ... never having had anything to do with a "Lance" we did some research. 

Well damn ! They've been around a while ! Making camp boxes for truck beds mainly, but also travel trailers and a few toy haulers. The reviews are pretty positive and good, quality seems to be superb, although the company was recently purchased by the REV group ... they are heavy hitters in firetrucks, ambulances, buses, and luxury/high quality recreational vehicles. 

We kept going back and looking a the pics of the Lance ... it was their biggest toy hauler, the 2612, and we finally went to the dealer to take a look at it. 

Well, we ended up putting a hold deposit on the Lance because we didn't want to let it get away.

We will be dropping off the Clipper Cadet tomorrow as a trade-in. After they remove the Husky Centerline TS Weight Distribution system from it and put it on the Lance and also put our current (newly bought in July) memory foam mattress in the Lance, we will be pick up the Lance on Wednesday after our walkthrough with the technicians.

   

Travel Trailer, 5th Wheel, Toy Hauler, Class A, Diesel, or Gas ?

 After the last trip to Gig Harbor I had a couple of complaints about the Clipper Cadet. Specifically, the positioning of the toilet in the very small bathroom and the fact that there is no tank monitoring system installed. The lack of any sliders in our previous Class A and this trailer is also slightly irritating.

After we came back from our trip we had several debates about these issues and the various ways we could fix it.

1. Add a booster to the toilet and see if it could be rotated towards the shower basin This would give it plenty of legroom and allow the door to properly close and install a tank monitoring system for fresh water (we actually ran out of fresh water on the way home), and both the gray and black water tanks. After talking with our current RV shops we estimated these two things to cost us about $3,000 to have them installed.

2. Trade in the trailer and replace it with one that has everything we require, large bathroom with a spacious toilet, monitoring system and control panel, maybe a slider.

3. Same as option 2 except a 5th wheel.

4. Replace the trailer with a used Class A diesel pusher or a Class A gas.

5. Replace the trailer with a used Class C from CruiseAmerica.com.

So these options really opened up numerous issues that had to be addressed. Like, a diesel push that was less than 10 years old (2011 or newer) would cost a minimum of $100K.

A gas Class A would cost less but would have a few issues getting through mountains in areas like Grants Pass or Mount Shasta along I-5. Especially if towing a car.

A Class A would also require a few sacrifices ... we would no longer need the RAM 2500 to pull anything and it would be too large to pull behind the Class A ... it would have to go.

Switching the trailer out with a 5th wheel is a possible option, but they are usually heavier than a travel trailer and we might get a bit stuck on size, weight and dimensions or have to upgrade to a bigger truck like a 3500 or F350. If we did manage to find one that would work on the current RAM 2500 we would lose the tonneau cover including the extra, dry storage space in the bed and would have to buy & install the 5th wheel hardware in the bed (it is prepped for the hardware for both 5th wheel and gooseneck towing).

Buying a Class A would require a TOAD like a jeep or maybe the ML350 sitting in the driveway. After the first Class A we decided to go with a truck/trailer combo for multiple reasons ... 1) to not have to depend on others (or uber or taxi) for transportation and 2) less maintenance cost on the bigger engines and drive trains of a Class A.

So we dove into Craigslist, FB marketplace, dealer websites, and classifieds to see what was happening and available in our immediate area ... spreading out about 50 miles from our center. We even visited a local RV Expo in our area and saw some really, really nice Class A's !!

But no matter what we found, the end result was pretty much always the same thing.

A. The price was too high for a relatively new Class A diesel or even newer gas one.

B. Buying a Class A would require the sale or trade-in of our existing trailer and truck and the subsequent purchase of a TOAD.

C. Same situation for a used Class C from CruiseAmerica ... those run about $54,000 after a complete refurbish and there is a waiting list for them.

D. 5th wheels are nice, they have tons of room, usually 2-3 slides but like travel trailers, not many of them have built in generators, and if they do they are usually to heavy for our RAM 2500.

E. We would also like to take our recumbent trikes with us on trips to hopefully use bike trails wherever we visit. There were several on Gig Harbor that could be accessed. But there is no way to get the trikes into those little trailer doors ... that would require something more like a Toy Hauler.

Hmmmm ... made to haul toys, like quads, motorcycles, dune buggies and such .... interesting.

Also notable, Toy haulers usually have two things that travel trailers do NOT have ... a fuel station and a generator built in.

 

Communicating With Forest River - Part II

Well ... the final answer is basically ... it's not missing, we just never put it in !! Oh, and the videos you emailed us are not the exact same models as yours is, so your comparisons are invalid.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 11:35 AM <redacted> <xxxxxxxxxx@forestriverinc.com> wrote:

I did some checking around and verified with our management that the tank probes were not a standard feature at the time your unit was manufactured.  I was not here at the time, so I wanted to double check and verify the correct information.  Your tank probes are not “missing” as they were not part of the build specifications.  The 2019 videos shown below are of the Classic model, not the Cadet model.  The Classic was standard with the tank probes.  The Cadet was built as an entry level economic version where many of the features from the Classic were omitted for cost savings.  The one video of a Cadet below you have labeled 2019 is actually a 2020.  The 2020 Cadets did have the tank probe system. 

 

I hope this information is helpful and thank you for your inquiry.

 

Have a great weekend.

 Quite an interesting development. One that makes me wonder if we should find an alternative to replace our Forest River. But after a bit more research this might be a difficult task considering that most of the current RV manufacturers fall under one of four very large conglomerations ... 

Berkshire Hathaway owns a dozen RV mfgs including Forest River:

• Coachmen RV
• Dynamax Corporation
• East To West travel trailers
• Forest River RV
• Palomino
• Prime Time Manufacturing
• Shasta RV
• US Cargo
• Elkhart Coach
• Berkshire Coach
• Champion Bus
• ElDorado Motor Corp.

Thor Industries owns these North American companies and quite a few more overseas.

• Airstream
• Crossroads RV
• Cruiser RV
• Dutchmen
• Entegra Coach
• Heartland RV
• Highland Ridge RV
• Hymer
• Jayco
• Keystone RV
• K-Z
• Postle Aluminum (An aluminum manufacturer
• Redwood RV (a subsidiary of Crossroads RV)
• Starcraft (owned by Jayco before they purchased Jayco)
• Tiffin (most recently purchased in 2020)
• Thor Motor Coach (a consolidation of Four Winds International & Damon Motor Coach)
• Van Leigh (Subsidiary of Tiffin)
• Venture

Winnebago also owns a few brands:

• Winnebago
• Grand Design RV
• Chris-Craft
• Newmar

 And then there is the REV Group. They mainly make fire trucks, busses, and ambulances but have spread out to recreation and now own some top of the line mfgs ...

• American Coach
• Fleetwood Enterprises
• Monaco Coach
• Holiday Rambler
• Renegade RV
• Midwest Automotive Designs
• Lance Camper

To Be continued ...